Most product-based business owners think they need something new to grow, a new strategy, a shiny tool, a game-changing idea. But the truth, you don't need more exciting. You need what actually works. Because the businesses that win on profit and cash flow, yeah, they've mastered the fundamentals. And this is exactly what we do inside the inventory genius program. We clean up your financials so that you have a clear, accurate picture of your inventory and your real margins. We fix your product mix, making sure every single SKU is actually making you money, not just creating revenue. And we build a profit plan so that you can pay off debt, generate cash, and run your business with confidence. No fluff, no guesswork, no chasing trends, just a proven system that helps product-based businesses win again when it comes to profit and it comes to cash. Because long-term success isn't flashy, it's consistent. Join us in the Inventory Genius program. Let's make your business work for you. Hey friend, welcome to the Inventory Genius podcast, where we work together here to make you an inventory genius. We talk about profit, we talk about cash flow, and we definitely talk about your paycheck. Because at the end of the day, it's all related to your inventory. Let's go. Hey there, listener. Okay, today I have a really interesting episode for you. This was first recorded live with our resident money mindset coach. Now you might ask, what is that, a resident money mindset coach? Well, inside the IGOS Plus coaching program, our coaching clients that are going through the IGOS program have access every single month live to a money mindset coach. We talk about things money related, how we think about numbers, how we relate to debt, and all things mindset. I asked her to record a live class for our clients. And the class was so good that I wanted to share it with all of you here today. So you're gonna have privilege to two things. Number one, you're gonna hear the genius of Jennifer, our money mindset coach, as she talks about how mindset and money are related and how we can get stuck. And number two, you're gonna get a little sneak peek behind the scenes of what all of our coaching clients have privilege to do every single month live. Sit back and enjoy this episode. Let's talk about money and how we think about it. Hello everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of our money mindset conversation with Jennifer Bullman, who is an endurance and mindset coach. And she is going to be visiting with us today about our relationship with debt and what we think about debt. We've already had a conversation about just the high-level how do we think about money as it relates to us and what are some of the beliefs we had around money. And I think going deeper now with some conversations around debt and how our identity can really be tied to debt. It can be such a heavy, nasty word. And so we're going to visit with Jennifer today. Jennifer has a workbook that she has dropped into the back end here of the library, and she's going to share that as we make our way through our conversation. Welcome to the conversation, Jennifer. Thank you.

Excited to get started again.

All right, let's go ahead and have you share your screen. We're going to dig into our topic of debt.

Okay, here we go. All right, so the topic of this one is what you're making numbers mean. And so as we talked about last time in the class with money mindset, is we have all these different thoughts and beliefs about money. What happens is typically we see a number and then all of that identity, all of those thoughts coming up, and then we just spiral because you've seen a number like $50,000. And the important part to know is that like the $50,000 is just the amount of money, like it's just numbers on a computer screen. It's all those thoughts and stories you have about it. That's what's making you spiral, not the actual number that you're seeing, which can be hard to remember sometimes. So here's what happens is numbers can feel really personal to us because we're assigning meaning so fast with them. So we assign a meaning or we have a thought about it. We then have a feeling that comes up that drives our behavior and then it creates the results that we have. So using this framework, here's an example. Let's say you're $50,000 in debt, you look and you know, you look at your credit card bill, right? Like, oh man, I owe $50,000. Your media thought might be this is too big. And when you think something is too big and debt is too big, a feeling that might come up for you is overwhelmed. And when you're overwhelmed, what happens? You don't do anything. You just stall. Like you just completely stall. And then the debt stays the same and actually probably grows because you have interest. And then it reinforces the idea that this debt is too big. And then you just do this again and again and again. So let's say I was like, yes. Yes. So here is a way again you can work with numbers. And we're gonna go back to the framework that we use because it's a framework you can use with everything. Is the first thing you have to do is you have to pick a number that you have charge around, but you have to write it as a fact. So what happens is we'll say I'm $50,000 in debt, and you know, I have so much debt. Um, you know, you have no idea how much I have more debt than you have. I remember Sierra, we were in a mastermind and people of all different various numbers of debt. And one woman's like, oh, I have the most debt of anybody in the room. And she was, but it was totally fine for her because for her, like it wasn't a problem. Like her story around it was totally different. And somebody with $5,000 in debt is completely crushed by it every single day. Because the debt is just a neutral circumstance. It is just a monetary number, it's just a figure. And then you get to decide what the story is. But first you have to know what your story is. So, whatever that number is, figure out what is the very first sentence that you're come up that your brain comes up with when you think about that number. So, some questions, and these are in the workbook as well, that you can ask yourself is what's the first sentence your brain says? What do you predict because of this number? Are you predicting like you're never gonna get out of it? It's gonna get worse, that you're a failure. Um, what does this number say about me? This is a really important one when it comes to debt, especially like typically when we think of that, it comes to self-worth, that you're a failure, something's wrong with you intrinsically. Um, you're you're disappointing people. Like, really explore what that's make what you're making that mean about you. And then you want to see what that story is causing in your life. So when you think that thought about debt, let's say that this is too big, what is the emotion that comes up? Maybe it's overwhelm or anxiety, or it could be um shame that comes up a lot when we talk about debt. And shame is really tricky because from shame it's the most stalling emotion that we have. We just get so stuck in it. Um so see if that's coming up. Yeah, if anybody is is in like deep shame, it's almost it's actually really hard from a coach to coach them as well because it's in such like a it's such a spiral, right? Because it has to do with your own self-worth. So if you think you're a lesser person intrinsically because of something you've done, that's a that is a very like again, you get it's a very dark place to be, and there's you will not take action from there. Um, so the first if you are in shame, the first thing to try to do is notice it's happening and see if you can get to a slightly like better thought and then try to move out that way, even if even if it's like there, I'm still a good person, is a great thought to think, right? If you find yourself really in shame with debt, it's going back to your to your self-worth because that's what's being in question. And then, like uh good, you know, really good people also have debt because that's true. Um, right? I mean, but it's sometimes you need to remind yourself of that. Like those, like my self-worth is not different. I mean, how many amazing um entrepreneurs and business people have like have bankruptcy, have gone into huge amounts of debt? I mean, we have so many examples, right? That those two things aren't connected. So it's good to remind yourself that like my self-worth and my ability to run a business is not connected to my debt. Those are two separate things. So, some ways you might want to unravel this is looking at your patterns. So, do you freeze, do you discount or overdeliver? Uh maybe you just, I think a lot of people just avoid the debt entirely. Do you go back into learning mode? Like, oh, if I just learn a few more things and I'll like be able to figure this out. Um, and then compare and despair. So you compare yourself to others and then you despair that you're not far as far as long as they are, or you don't have the same numbers they have, or whatever that looks like.

Jennifer, I want to jump in here with a story that um this was actually on one of the teaching calls that you did within the group. Um I won't mention her name, but you remember the gal that shared her story on pricing. So she had the pricing to do, and her friends wanted to hire her for a project because she does really good work, design work. And so she gave them a price which was lower than what it should have been. And they um, you know, to get the deal, right? Because she was struggling with her worth as a designer. And they asked for some specifics of the project, which really ruffled her feathers. And so we talked through why that ruffled her feathers, and she said it's because it even caused more like shame and guilt to rise up within her. Anyway, what's so phenomenal when people follow what you tell them to do? She reported back to me a week later. Oh, she did. Yeah, she she used your advice, she used this method, worked through where those feelings were coming from, and she had some shame to like rise out of. Went back to them, explained the project, charge what she should charge. They did it and they paid her with no. Yes. So now she's created that proof that she and she big smile when she told me. She likes here. I had the conversation, I explained the project, I charge them appropriately, and they paid me. And she was smiling because now she's created the proof of the other set of thinking. Like, okay, I am, they actually came to me because they know I'm really good at my job, and I can charge what I'm worth, and I will get the project.

Exactly. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, that's that, you know, sometimes you have like paradigm shifting experiences. That's probably one for her. Because now there's no reason never to not charge what your value is because now she makes people pay.

Yes.

That's amazing. Yeah, that's so great. And I um and I remember working with her, and I can't remember what thought that we created for her, but I think it was something along the lines of like, like, like this, like this price, right, is my value. So, like, you know, you might once you're creating new stories. Again, it can be really helpful to go with neutral reality that this is data. So, like, my work equals this price is is one you can go to. Um, I really love like this is just a number. So if you're really bothered by say $50,000 in debt, this is a number or this is data, or this is information about this moment, just turning those numbers into what they actually are, which is a point in time information that you get to decide what to do with it. But it it has nothing to do with your worth or your value, it's just a number. Um, we had this uh initial kind of teaching came from a student I was working with, and she had the thought that she can't work with anybody who makes over a million dollars and she's a consultant, which is an unfortunate thought to have if you're trying to work with businesses. And so we we we went, we like dived into it, and what she came up with is like, oh, I'm not, I don't have like the right schooling or the right like expertise, and they're gonna know more than I do, and I just like I I'm not like qualified to work with people over a million dollars. And I and so, and so she's like, Oh, it's like that's ridiculous. I don't believe that at all. Like, why is that in there? And so, where we actually came to is that like actually her ideal client definitely makes over a million because they're more likely to invest in consulting, they're more likely to be invested in their business, they've had some success before, like her ideal client actually is people who make a million dollars, and that completely shifted her business model entirely when she was able to do that. So, just from this kind of create creating, yeah. And so, and where I pushed her, I said, so anybody that has $900,000 in the bank is fine, but anybody that has one million dollars, like a one million dollar business, and that's then that's a problem. Like, what happens between like what is the difference? Like, what happens to a person in that time period? And so when you see it so factually, it it is and can be very funny because you're like, okay, this is ridiculous. Like, let me let me try to work through this again.

Yeah, and I think you know, what prompted me to share that conversation about that client, or like in the story you just shared, is that the way that we think about our debt affects so many other things. So that part of the root of the client that I shared was that she has a lot of debt right now. And so, because of that, she was feeling like she couldn't charge what she was worth. She must not be good at business, even though her business is making and has made so she's been in business for over a decade. She knows how to run a business. And so if we don't observe what we think about our debt, it can sabotage everything else in our business, which actually keeps us even more stuck in the debt. Exactly.

Yeah, and notice too, if there's like a line, like, you know, people are okay with debt until 20,000. All of them, 25,000, it's crushing, right? And it again, you and you, the thing with coaching is you don't really need to know why there's that threshold. Just know that for whatever reason your brain decided to elect to have a whole bunch of new stories around 25,000 versus 20. But know that they are stories, that it's not real. Like it's just as true to say as the as the other as your other client said, like, oh, I have more debt than all of you. It's not a problem at all. Like, that's just as much of a story as I'm a failure because I have debt. Both of them are just stories that you get to make up. But the ones that are that are like serving you and move you forward and help you look at numbers and take debt away, like those are the ones you want to lean into because that's the most helpful for you. But you get to decide. And then you get to take action. So the final, the next part of this is to take action. So this is how you start to turn like the autopilot pattern off, is you have a new belief that you're working on and you immediately take action from there. So let's say one of your beliefs is this is just data, right? So let's say you see $50,000 in debt and you're like, this is just data, and then you go, okay, what's my action plan? Like, I'm gonna look at my numbers, I'm gonna pay it down, or I'm gonna see what my um you know, what I'm gonna do going forward in debt from the idea that this is just data. And that's way more powerful than this is too big. And then also a way you could think about it is microactions. So, like, what can you do in the next 24 hours that makes a difference? And it could just be like looking at your bank statement, it could be looking at multiple bank statements, it could be paying something, but like what's something really small you can do from the belief that this is data in 24 hours because we want that immediate feedback to the brain. I have a new belief, I'm going to take action, and now I have evidence, and that will really help solidify this.

One thing I found that works really well. If any of you are thinking, what could be my micro action in 24 hours? Is literally write down all of the debt. Do not lie, do not hide it from yourself. Write it all down with a name behind it. So credit card debt, Shopify loan, SBA loan, loan to my mom. Write it all down. This um really became um relevant to me for the first time as a coach. When I was working with a client, she too had a lot of debt. And we sat down together at a table and I had her write everything. I just kept asking her, what else? What else? You know, could you tell me I'm like, what else? What else? Wrote it all down. And she just started weeping and said, I've never spoken it out loud. Like it's all of this has lived swirling around in my head, moving money around in my head. And I've never been honest with myself. And she said, I don't like what I'm seeing, but it actually feels really good because now I have it on paper and I'm being honest with myself. And so that could be the 20 the action you take in 24 hours, just to be really honest about what you actually have. Because once you see that, then we can make a plan. It's when you don't articulate it and you try to hide it from yourself, which is hilarious, but we do that. That you can't actually make a plan because you're not working with real information.

Yeah, no, that's so it it's great, and also there's so much of what we don't consider is the energy suck of that thing bouncing around your head because it'll probably be like making dinner and boom the dead thing comes up and boom this and boom this. But if it's in there, you'd be like, Nope, it's it's in my spreadsheet. Like, I don't need to think about this again. I've already put on my spreadsheet. And that really helps alleviate like the the energy suck of debt that deck can have, and then you're right. Then once it's actually all out, then you can actually make a plan and do something. And then the next time you're making dinner and that comes up, like, no, it's it's in the spreadsheet, and I have a plan to address it. And that's how we can really feel so much lighter around the debt that we have. Yes. Yeah, I love that. That's a great micro action. Um, and then you want to look at the results from the action. So let's say that your microaction were gonna you're gonna write down be honest of all the debt you have, right? What did you learn from it? What did your brain try to make the result mean? How do you feel now that's different? But really take and assess what happened when you when you wrote all the down, all the debt down. And then, so for example, um, I'll give you like let's say that you switched your brain to I'm fully capable of paying this off. I mean that's a really powerful thought too when it has debt is if if you know, and if you're in if Sierra's work is SEER, you know you have a plan, it can happen, it will happen. So if you're fully capable of paying this off and you're looking at the $50,000, the feeling that probably is gonna come up for you is feeling confident, right? You're more likely to create a plan and actually stick to the plan, and then you're probably gonna start paying off the debt because that's what happens when you think you're fully capable of paying off debt, you pay it off. And it's funny, I mean, it seems so matter-of fact that you see evidence of this all the time. Like you know, your friends who do the same thing again and again and again, positive and negative, it's because they have a repeat thought in their head about something. So use it to our advantage. Let's put a repeat thought in your head that you're capable of doing something amazing, and then you can go and do it. And then you get to decide what if it works for you, it doesn't work for you. So I think this is an important part. If the thought, like number this is just the number is working for you, double down on it, use it for more things, like really integrate it. Um, if you want to release a different thought you have, it's the time to release it, but you want to come back and evaluate your mindset change. So I changed my mindset to this. Here are some of the results I'm having, I'm gonna do more of it or less of it, or I'm gonna change it in this way. But we always want to be assessing what it is we're doing in our brain all the time because we get to choose, and it's always your choice to decide what to do.

I have a question for you. I've never asked before. So I don't know what you're going to answer. But I'm genuinely curious. Do you think we can borrow belief from other people? So if we have a coach, like, so I believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that everyone in the program can get to financial freedom. I 100% believe that. Lots of people in the program do not believe that when they start for sure. And even as they're working through, can they borrow belief from me? And what does that look like?

Yeah, I know I love this. And I first learned how to do this um as an athlete. Um, so Sarah and I, we know each other from from being athletes, but I had my coach believe that I could be go to Iron Man, to Kona the Iron Man World Championships like years before I thought it was possible, right? But I trust her so much. And so I'm like, well, I trust Marilyn. I don't see it myself, but she sees it some, it must be true at least a percentage. And that's enough for me to keep on training. And then eventually I got enough evidence in training and embracing where I'm like, oh, I believe this too. But for a long time, I borrowed her belief in me. And so that's where like a really powerful coach and mentor who you really trust and knows, okay, Sierra knows exactly what she's doing, and she's with so many people. I don't see it yet, but if she believes I can do this, I believe this to at least some percentages must be a possibility. And the minute you think something is impossible and you switch to it could be possible, then you have so many more options for what beliefs you can start to think because you're not closed off. You're open to any thought that might be possible. So that's a really powerful thing to do, is that if Sierra thinks I can do this, and might this this must be possible, at least a small percentage, but that means it's not impossible.

Yeah. So really it's about whatever you need to do to move from the negative thought pattern that's not serving you to a small percentage of something you can believe in. So even if it's not, I believe in myself because I've never done this and I don't know, and I just don't have that belief, but I believe that there is a possibility because there's proof the program works. There's proof that she's and we could use that like you did with athletics. I mean, we can use it in so many areas in our life, but I think that's just an important piece because sometimes we can't get there on our own quite yet. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. And if you did believe you could do it, you already would be there, right? So there's nothing wrong if you don't believe that yet, right? This is just a stepping stone. Like this is how our beliefs, I think of like a ladder, right? You have like one rung and then you go up another one, then another one, then another one. So you start as small as you need to to get up just a little bit better one and a little bit better one, a little bit better one as you go.

Now, I will add a caveat to this. You also have to take action. So you didn't just say to your coach, oh yes, I'll make it to Kona, but I'm never doing the workouts you put in for me. But yes, I believe because that didn't work that way. It's the same thing, like you can borrow my belief, but you also have to take the action of putting your numbers in, showing up for the calls, doing the hard things, asking the questions, because the belief that I have that it will work comes from the data that when people have followed the system, it produces results. Just like your coach said, when they follow my workouts and they do them, they can make it to Kona, you know, so that you do have to take action to talk about that as well.

And I think it's some, I think that kind of barring belief is really helpful when you're about to do something that you don't think you can do. So, like, you know, okay, Sierra says I have to like every Monday I have to go in and like record my numbers and do it. Like, I don't know if I can do that, right? But I know that Sarah believes that I can. So now I'm gonna go ahead and do it because she believes I can do it. Like that's a good time to use it. So, like, you know, in the analogy for workouts, like, oh, I don't know if I can hit those numbers. But if Marilyn thinks I can, maybe I can, let me at least try, as opposed to like, nope, I definitely can't do it. And then and then inevitably you hit it and you're like, oh, I guess I can't. And so same thing, like, oh, I guess Monday was really hard, and I did my, I, you know, I put everything in, but I did it. And now I know I can. And so the next Monday gets easier, the next Monday it's easier. And then there you go.

Yeah, really good. Well, thank you so much for this conversation as well. Um, Jennifer works one-on-one with anyone who's interested from a mindset perspective. So you all have access to her information. We'll drop it below here so that you can get in touch with her. If it's something that you just want to bring into your life, I know sometimes we need um different experts to speak to different parts of things that we're working through. And so if you're interested in having some mindset conversation and coaching with Jennifer, you can always add that on. I think it would help you not just here when we're talking about money and finances, but in every aspect of life, relationships and doing other hard things and accomplishing goals that you have. Thanks so much for joining me today. Thank you. All right, everybody. See you next time. Bye for now. Hey there, friend. Okay, if you've been around me long enough, you know how important I feel it is that you have a good bookkeeper on your team. And that's why I'm really excited to welcome TO to the inventory genius world. At TO, they help businesses organize and streamline their accounting, set up smart systems, and actually use their financials to make good decisions. They give you the financial tools that you need to grow your business and remain successful. And here's what else I love about them. They have a dedicated team member that will work on clean efforts. That's right. So if you have books that are a disaster, maybe you've never kept your books in the past, maybe you've kept your books in your past, but people did not do a very good job. Whatever the case, TL has a dedicated team member on staff that works specifically to clean up the books and bring them up to date. So if this sounds like something that you'd be interested in, check out TL. The link for their information and their contact information is in the show notes.